You're the one making this a black-or-white issue, Dr. Peele, nor me. I am not against moderation programs and, in fact, referred a patient to one the other day. He is high functioning and so far, his heavy alcohol use has not wrecked his life to the point that he would consider an abstinence program. At the same time, I've known many people, including myself, who have tried everything possible to manage the addictive substance and can't get peace from the cravings and compulsion. It is those people, in my experience, who seek out the 12-steps programs and stay for the hope and recovery. If anyone goes to a 12- step meeting and has someone try to tell you what you gave to do, then know that that person has not yet gained the spiritual recovery in the 12 steps. Seek out the people with abstinence, yes, but also a maturity and serenity and clear evidence that their life has gootten better through the 12 step program (actively working it). There are dry drunks who are willful, arrogant, and try to be others' higher power. That is sobriety, but not recovery. There's a big difference.